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Emma
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PostSubject: Meat Eating   Sun Oct 17, 2010 2:36 pm

i was a vegetarian for many years and then i became ill, and was told by a holistic doctor i needed to incorporate meat. i felt guilty as i did not want to consume the flesh of an animal that was treated terribly and killed to feed me. i also thought i would never evolve if i ate meat. i visited a Buddhist temple and the monks were eating MacDonald's and playing video games which frankly freaked me out. my teacher from Pasadena told me to slow down and not try to do so much in this life time, it was not meant for me to abstain, she said the guilt when a chela first begins is overwhelming, we are not meant to do all in one life time, and so we must take baby steps. here is William Quan Judge on the subject, but i ask how many are vegetarians or meat eaters, do you think this is a terrible habit or a part of what you feel you must do for now?


Meat eating and spirituality
William Q. Judge
What is the opinion of the leaders of the T.S. in regard to vegetarianism?

W.Q.J. - Physicians and those who have tried vegetarianism are those who should speak on this. The opinions of "leaders," as such, are of no consequence. I tried it for nine years, and found it injurious. This is because the western man has no heredity of vegetarianism behind him, and also because his dishes as a vegetarian are poor. They should be confined to rice, barley, wheat, oats, some nuts and a little fruit; but westerners don't like such a meager variety. The stomach does not digest vegetables, it is for meat; the teeth are for tearing and grinding meat. Most of those vegetarians I know eat a whole lot of things injurious to them and are not benefitted. Had we an ancestry going back thousands of years, vegetarians always, the case might be different. I know that most of the experienced physicians we have in the Society - and I know a great many - agree with my view, and some of them insist that vegetarianism is wrong under any conditions. With the latter view I do not agree. There ought to come a time in our evolution when new methods of food production will be known, and when the necessity for killing any highly organized creature will have disappeared.

The other branch of the subject is that regarding spiritual development and vegetarianism. It has been so often dealt with it is sufficient to say that such development has nothing to do with either meat-eating or the diet of vegetables. He who gives up meat-eating but does not alter his nature and thoughts, thinking to gain in spirituality, may flatter himself and perhaps make a fetish of his denial, but will certainly thereby make no spiritual progress.

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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Sun Oct 17, 2010 3:57 pm

When I was young and single I was a vegetarian. When I married it was a bother to my non-veggie wife to prepare two types of meals. So now I avoid beef, lamb & pork; just some chicken & fish.

When HPB started the Esoteric School she did not require vegetarianism. As Jesus said "It is not what goes into the mouth that matters, but what comes out." (Mt. 15:11, 17-20)

So I do not think it is a big deal for most of us. I have know some very mean vegetarians and very kindly meat-eaters.

At some point we should try to reduce our consumption of meat, just to avoid the filthy way they are slaughtered and to show some compassion for the killing of animals.

A vegetarian diet is helpful spiritually, but only when we are far advanced in altruistic ethics & meditation.


Last edited by Skull on Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:14 pm

excellent answer. i also only now eat chicken and fish, but organic. the hormones and pesticides are in many meat products, one must be diligent. it is the same with HP Blavatsky and the fact that she drank red wine smoked cigars and had a terrible temper. i asked my first teacher's why would the masters choose such a person to use as a channel, and he said she was the best they could get. i thought that was terrible but he clarified by saying "she was chosen for a purpose and was more suited to what they needed than an aesthetic, it is what one decides to do rather than what one has done that makes the difference. i am posting the issues here as i receive questions regarding the subjects that most beginners worry about. we do what we can and follow out hearts and know the higher self will guide us to what is right for us in this life time. one day at a time.

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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:36 pm

Well,PETA sent some letter in the mail to me and I felt pretty bad and tried to be a vegetarian and then,I realized something.First of all,animals kill each other to eat each other anyway.Secondly,even if I became a vegetarian I would only be hurting myself and not saving any animals because the animals would be killed whether I ate them or not.
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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:37 am

i thank the animals for their service, and only eat chicken ad fish and meat if it is raised humanely. one day there will be no need to harm a living creature and it is my hope we will come to that realization before we destroy ourselves.

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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:41 am

Well,we might but,animals will still do what they have always done in nature.(you can't get mad at an owl for eating it's prey.Or a bird for eating a fish.) I think if people would just stop doing things inhumanely and raising animals just to kill them,things would be fine.Nature has a very delicate balance.Things live and die,that is how nature works.
Just like when the Indians would hunt and then,use every piece of the animal that was killed.That was fine.Nothing of that animal was wasted and nothing was really done inhumanly.
Could I personally hunt and kill an animal or watch it get killed? No,I could not and it bothers me that people hunt animals every year.
Could I ever be a vegetarian? No,I could not.I just love meat to much and need it to stay somewhat healthy.The only thing I have ever seen come out of being a vegetarian was people getting sick and way to skinny.It was not a good thing.Not only that but,the whole purpose for why they turned into vegetarians was defeated because animals were still being killed as they sat there eating their salad.It's pointless.Even if 75% of America turned into vegetarians they would still be killing animals to feed the other percentage.
That said,I think it is a good idea to thank the animal and I have never heard of or thought of that.It is something I will have to start doing.
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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:11 am

it may not be your time to stop eating meat, it could be your chemical make up needs the protein. having said that i have friends who are vegan healthy and not skinny. i don't like the way animals are treated before and during the killing. in the old days we raised them freely, put an x on their head and shot them, and butchered them out selves. the slaughterhouses are truly deplorable and disgusting, cows and their babies being dragged up by pulleys and their throats slit, sometimes struggling and crying. baby calves kept in crates in their own feces not being able to turn around and then killed. horses being pulled and whipped and then being killed so idiots in other countries can eat them, dogs and cats being skinned alive and the cooked up as delicacies. i have seen this as i am a animal rights activist. after witnessing this if your heart does not bleed and you do not cry, then there is no heart to feel. it is why i only buy from humanely raised farms. the slaughter houses pollute the rivers with the blood and animal waste and this is why so many people become ill who live near them. i have stopped eating meat after seeing what goes on, but i still eat fish and chicken. i will never touch veal or red meat as i can not feed off the suffering of mother nature's beautiful creature. my epiphany came this morning after a disturbing encounter which i shall never talk about. when the time is right whether this life or the next the epiphany will come, but for now just recognizing the suffering is important, the rest will come later.

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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:40 am

This is a good group, focusing on helping farm animals: http://www.hfa.org/
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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:52 am

yes it is. we have a farm sanctuary near me which i support.

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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:03 am

Bella wrote:
yes it is. we have a farm sanctuary near me which i support.

By the by, where are you on the planet Bella? "Seventh globe" does not compute for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Mon Oct 18, 2010 8:43 am

I eat meat in moderation
and give thanks to the animal for what I was given to eat. I try to eat free range products

as we are taught in Theosophy we are incarnated in many different levels from the mineral kingdom plant kingdom, animal kingdom up to the human kingdom we raise the vibrations of each kingdom as we raise ours ( that can be the minerals raising raising the minerals to the next kingdom )

it is believed that when a person that eats the meat of a animal the person takes in the attributes of that animal, or plant

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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:21 am

Skull wrote:
Bella wrote:
yes it is. we have a farm sanctuary near me which i support.

By the by, where are you on the planet Bella? "Seventh globe" does not compute for me.


a small town in the hudson valley .

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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:22 am

Frater O M wrote:
I eat meat in moderation
and give thanks to the animal for what I was given to eat. I try to eat free range products

as we are taught in Theosophy we are incarnated in many different levels from the mineral kingdom plant kingdom, animal kingdom up to the human kingdom we raise the vibrations of each kingdom as we raise ours ( that can be the minerals raising raising the minerals to the next kingdom )

it is believed that when a person that eats the meat of a animal the person takes in the attributes of that animal, or plant

yes frater O M, i remember that. it is why i do not ear wild boar. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:47 am

I stopped eating red meat in college because the meat served in the dorms was so awful. We called it "mystery meat" because we couldn't tell what it was. No

After school, I never added it back and ate only fish and chicken. Several years ago I stopped preparing such things for myself or ordering them at restaurants. I guess I just lost interest.

Now I only eat chicken or fish when offered to me at the homes of friends or family so as not to create a scene. If the food is prepared with love, as is the turkey at Thanksgiving at my mother's, I don't mind.

Funny thing, the same thing happened recently with beer and wine. I just lost my taste for them. No interest at all.

I've never used hard liquor. My body had such a strong reaction against it when I first tried it in college, I just listened and stopped. It felt like death to me--so goodbye Margaritas!

I never learned to like coffee either. It just tasted like burnt stuff. I do like green tea now and then, though.

No health problems I'm aware of from my diet.

I think the important thing is learning to listen the body. I suppose if I ever needed to build up my immune system after a serious illness, I'd get "permission" to go back to meat--chicken soup, at least!

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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Mon Oct 18, 2010 9:57 am

Bella wrote:
Skull wrote:
Bella wrote:
yes it is. we have a farm sanctuary near me which i support.

By the by, where are you on the planet Bella? "Seventh globe" does not compute for me.


a small town in the hudson valley .

Never explored the Northeast of the lower 48; except a couple of drives, one in winter, one in summer through central NY toward Canada.

Ever met Pete Seeger, is he a meat-eater? (just trying to stay somewhere near the topic)
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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:58 am

I've been a Vegetarian for five years. I don't eat anything with a face.
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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:10 am

Skull wrote:
Bella wrote:
Skull wrote:
Bella wrote:
yes it is. we have a farm sanctuary near me which i support.

By the by, where are you on the planet Bella? "Seventh globe" does not compute for me.


a small town in the hudson valley .

Never explored the Northeast of the lower 48; except a couple of drives, one in winter, one in summer through central NY toward Canada.

Ever met Pete Seeger, is he a meat-eater? (just trying to stay somewhere near the topic)


i haven't met him, his clear water festival is held five minutes away from my house. i'm not sure if he's a vegetarian, but he must be doing something right. he still chops wood and he is in his nineties.

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PostSubject: Animal Acres   Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:54 am

Back to the topic:

Even if you are not near So. Cal. this group will happily accept online donations. They provide a haven for farm animals. http://www.animalacres.org/
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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:31 pm

I give to Best Friends.
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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:24 am

I ALWAYS remember to give thanks to the animal for giving its life so that others could eat. Being a vergetarian IS, i feel, healthier, but, i must confess that i am a meat eater. my sister was a vegan, then she started getting these migraines and her doctor told her that she needed to put dairy back in her diet. so she did. she HAD to. she said she chose to be a vegan because of the way these dairy farmers treated their animals. I told her, i said, "Hannah, they treat those animals the same way whether you buy their products or NOT."

what makes me mad and my sister, as well, is these people who CLAIM to be vegetarians but will eat fish, chicken, turkey and pork. Listen, people, IF IT BLEEDS it IS MEAT. My sister says, and she is RIGHT, those people are NOT vegetarians, they are only people who do NOT eat red meat.
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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:40 pm

Why don't they just pass a bill in Washington that says these people have to take care and treat the animals humanely before killing them.Also,that they have to kill them in the most humane way possible.
Or,that they can't raise animals just to kill them.They have to go and hunt for them.Of course that could be a problem too.
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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:49 pm

QueenBeeBeeMarie wrote:
Why don't they just pass a bill in Washington that says these people have to take care and treat the animals humanely before killing them.Also,that they have to kill them in the most humane way possible.
Or,that they can't raise animals just to kill them.They have to go and hunt for them.Of course that could be a problem too.

they should but you have these bloody lobbyists that push the agenda of one's who want wolves off the endangered species list, and advocate research on animals, which in itself is horrendous and should be stopped. as long as man kind thinks with their lower greedy self there will be no end to this cruelty.

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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:55 pm

Sweetheart, people THINK that because animals are not human, that gives them the perverbial green light to treat them anyway they want to. it is SAD, too, because animals have feelings, too. they feel pain, love, hate, happiness. and they ARE capbable of expressing these feelings, too. i LOVE animals, and i would NEVER, EVER kill or harm one. and i support anyone who helps protect animals.
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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:57 pm

this is where my anger comes in.

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PostSubject: Re: Meat Eating   Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:12 pm

I didn't even know wolves were on the endangered list.No,they should not be taken off they are too precious to be harmed by the ones who will hunt them just for the fun of it.I tried to argue the point against animal research many times but,people seem to think we need it and I said why don't they just research it on the ones they are trying to use it on.Apparently,I just came out looking like the bad guy or stupid maybe both.
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